MMA Ranking Talk

I really need to get some Evil Pooh T-shirts made up for prizes or something. *shrugs*

For this week I decided to double the tossup. The first one is fairly easy and if you have a pretty good idea who the two people are before even looking, then please wait until this weekend to answer. That will give some other people a chance. 8)

Last Week’s Answer

Beginner Mode

Similarities
Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* Number of wins
Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* Number of losses
Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* Number of (T)KOs

Both fighters lost their last fight
Both fighters won their previous two fights before that loss
Both fighters have 3 wins and 3 loses in their last six fights

Other
Fighter A has *ONE* more submission victory than Fighter B
Fighter B holds *TWO* Victories over Fighter A
Fighter B’s Strength of Schedule is slightly higher than Fighter A’s (About 3-4ish percent)

Intermediate Mode

Similarities
Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* Number of KOs
Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* Number of Subs
Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* Number of non-unanimous decisions

Advantage(s) Fighter A
Fighter A has two more wins than Fighter B

Advantage(s) Fighter B
Fighter B has four fewer losses than Fighter A
Fighter B has a slightly higher Strength of Schedule (barely 1%, but noted so people don’t think I ignored/forgot it)

Who ya got?

Remember to ask yourself a few questions while looking objectively at these fighters:

- Who has “achieved” more?

- If I were starting out in MMA (or my son/daughter/whatever) which record/accomplishments would I rather have to show for my(their) career?

- Does either fighter have a significant edge over the other?

Remember that we want to ignore the names and get down to raw accomplishments here. It’s not a perfect science by any means, but quite often I’ve found people are truly shocked by what some fighters have/haven’t actually done. Keep in mind this isn’t about bashing one fighter, but perhaps seeing one fighter get just a touch more respect.

I got a request to wait a day for the next toss up (and I wanted a nap), so here we are a day late.

Here is the answer to last week’s tossup:

Last Week’s Answer

A slightly different approach

This week I’m going to be very straight forward with information about both fighters (still unnamed though) because I’m more interested with the relative perception of the fighters. As you’ll see both fighters appear fairly even from a numerical stand point, but the perception of them is very far apart.

Fighter A

Fighter A was often brought up p4p best discussions. Although not often mentioned in the “top 3″ he was constantly in the top 5 and almost never outside the top 10. Within his own weight class he was almost universally considered #1 or #2 for quite awhile. He won/defended a belt at least a couple times.

Fighter B

Fighter B constantly appears to be largely unknown and unappreciated as a fighter. I’ve seen him crack top 10 lists occasionally, but often with much disdain from a majority of fans. Although they are not currently “top 10″ on this site, their rating is very good and they could easily be right back in the top 10.

Numerical Information

Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* number of wins

Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* number of KOs

Fighter B has *ONE* more *LOSS* than Fighter A

Fighter A’s strength of schedule is *LESS* than 2% higher

Fighter B has *FEWER* submission victories than Fighter A

What I see

As I said, this tossup for me is a bit more about how people perceive fighters. I don’t think anyone would argue that Fighter A is the “better” fighter. It’s almost universally accepted and I take nothing away from them.

Where I become confused is in how Fighter B is often perceived and has been throughout their career. They have the same number of wins, have fought lots of high profile opponents, and their strength of schedule is less than 2% lower than Fighter A. With Fighter A’s recent loss (hint) Fighter B’s current rating is very close. Again, there is no doubt Fighter A has the higher max rating, the higher profile, etc., but I can go months without hearing anyone even mention Fighter B.

Riddle me this

As I said, Fighter A is definitely the more well known, dominate fighter, but is Fighter B really a “can” as some claim? Is it really insane that occasionally their name pops up on a Top 10 list? Please keep in mind I’m not advocating Fighter B as a world-ender, but simply as a solid MMA fighter who has had a career many coming into the sport would kill to have. Why do so few “fans” even know who they are? Even amongst those that do know who they are, why is this fighter often disrespected?

I’m just going to keep writing it until someone laughes

Some…Nights
Some…Fights
Go slippin’ through the cracks

But, Guess…who?!
EVIL…POOH
Is pickin’ up the slack

There’s no fight too long,
No fight too quick
When you need info just click

M – M – A – E – L – O
For your answers
M – M – A – E – L – O
When there’s questions

No No it never fails once you get there
Somehow everything is fair!!!

M – M – A – E – L – O
For your answers
M – M – A – E – L – O
When there’s questions

No no it never fails, with Evil Pooh
They’ll show the where’s and why’s and who’s

M – M – A – E – L – O
For your answers
M – M – A – E – L – O
When there’s questions

M! – M! – A! – E! – L! – O!

If you need help finding the beat check out Inspiration and then try again. 8)

Grats to firefly4f4

They were correct in guessing last weeks Tossup. Shane Carwin Vs Brett Rogers

I think this week’s is easier, but it probably depends how you go at it. Also, make sure to think about the raw numbers and try to get a sense of the caliber of fighter you’re looking at/for.

Similarities

Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* number of losses
Fighter A and Fighter B have both *LOST* once this year

Fighter A advantage(s)

Fighter A has *TWICE* as many wins as Fighter B
Fighter A has a *HIGHER* Sub% than Fighter B
Fighter A has a *HIGHER* KO% than fighter B

Fighter B advantage(s)

Fighter B has a strength of schedule over 100 points *HIGHER* than Fighter A

Additional Information

Fighter A and Fighter share *ONE* common opponent. Fighter A beat them, Fighter B lost to them.

Also note that by saying “higher sub%” I mean that not only does the fighter have more total subs, they win via sub a higher percent of the time than the other fighter. Ditto for KOs.

Who ya got?

Obviously this one depends heavily on how you value strength of schedule. An even deeper discussion is how you weigh strength of schedule for wins versus strength of schedule for loses. That, however, is a topic for a rant on a different day. 8P

In terms of pure achievement from a sport point of view though…who ya got?

Standard Intro, I’ll make it better later…

One of the things that makes this site different is that it strips out the hype. If Fighter A wins they go up, if they lose they go down. No name recognition, no organizational bias, etc.

What I’ve found over the years though is that some people don’t even realize how biased they are. In an attempt to foster some unbiased thought I figured I’d give this a try. I’m not totally sure how this will go, and I’ll probably change it because I get bored faster than a (*censored whorehouse joke here*).

Here’s how I see it going. I’m going to list totally unbiased, numeric data on two fighters. Active, retired, same weight, different weight, same org, diff org, whatever. Any two fighters. Based on that information you should gauge if they are relatively close, if one is clearly better than the other, whatever “ranking” type of judgment you would normally pass. After that feel free to guess who the fighters are, once you know who they are, did your “ranking” change? If so, why?

As a disclaimer all information is accurate to the best of my knowledge at the time of this rant.

Similarities

Fighter A and Fighter B have the *SAME* number of losses
Fighter A and Fighter B are *BOTH* undefeated in the last 3 years.
Fighter A and Fighter B *BOTH* have the same “finish percentage” (percent of wins not coming via decision)

Fighter A advantage(s)

Fighter A has 10% *MORE* wins than Fighter B

Fighter B advantage(s)

Fighter B has a harder strength of schedule (as measured on this site)

Conclusions?

So, based upon the information above should Fighter A be ranked higher? Fighter B? Are they close?

There were a few other criteria I thought about including, but things get subjective very quickly. I considered adding one/three year mod information, but I’m not sure if that belongs. If there is another “number” you’d like to see included, please let me know. Feel free to just guess who they are, and I’ll toss up the fighter comparison at some point in the future.