MMA Ranking Talk

Brock Lesnar is one of the most polarizing fighters in the history of Mixed Martial Arts. It seems almost everyone either loves him or hates him. What makes Brock’s case so interesting (frustrating?) is that many don’t seem to care what he actually does in the ring. Some people have hated/hugged him since before he had his first fight and they show no signs of budging from their current stance.

My goal with this rant is to hopefully provide some information that might otherwise go overlooked. If you hate Brock, then I’m sure you’ll find information here that further proves he sucks. If you love Brock, then I’m sure you’ll find information below that helps explain how he’s already better than Zeus. Really though, this rant is for those that fall somewhere between hater and hugger. For those people that want to take an honest look at what he’s done thus far, and how it compares to others.

Brock Lesnar’s Fight History

Let us start by taking a look at each of Brock’s fights thus far. We’ll see how Brock ranked after each fight and where others stood early in their career.

Min Soo Kim – Win

This was Brock’s first fight and honestly it was a pretty bad choice. At the time of the fight Min was 3-5 with a rating below 1500. Why you would pair a “future #1 HW” against such a weak opponent in their first fight is beyond me.

I’m a big advocate of Risk Vs Reward. In this case Brock’s name would have provided sufficient enough reward for him to fight a higher rated fighter. I’m not talking someone 2k rated, but he should have at least been given a solid veteran with more wins than loses.

Having such a weak first opponent definitely cost Brock some points early in his career. Still, he won the fight and earned a solid 48.

Where fighters stood after 1 fight

Here’s a table showing the highest fighter ratings after a single career fight.

Rank	Name	Rating
1	Ray Mercer	1594
2	Muhammed Lawal	1594
3	Hidehiko Yoshida	1590
4	Crosley Gracie	1589
5	Seo Hee Ham	1588
6	Akhmet Sultanov	1587
7	Mirko Filipovic	1587
8	Ricco Hatting	1587
9	Danny Lafever	1586
10	Joel Gerson	1586
11	Lee Hyung Sak	1586
12	Marcio Barbosa	1585
13	Angelo Díaz	1585
14	Aleksander Emelianenko	1584
15	William Candiru	1584
16	Michelli Tavares	1584
17	Zaza Tkeshelashvili	1583
18	Yancy Medeiros	1583
19	Rodolfo Amaro da Silva	1583
20	Roger Gracie	1582
21	Fransino Tirta	1582
22	Carlos Barreto	1582
23	Antonio Silva	1582
24	Aaron Arnsmeyer	1581
25	Amir Sadollah	1581

Strength of Schedule gets a lot of discussion as well, so here’s a list of people who had the highest Strength of Schedule after a single fight. The chart basically says who fought the highest rated opponent in their debut. It also shows mostly people who got their butt kicked. 8P

Rank	Name	SoS
1	Pawel Nastula	2092
2	Bu Kyung Jung	2024
3	Muhammed Lawal	1991
4	Ray Mercer	1966
5	Kengo Watanabe	1965
6	Maynard Marcum	1963
7	Tatsuya Iwasaki	1960
8	Darius Turcinskas	1949
9	Istvan Majoros	1933
10	Marcel Perigold	1932
11	Joe Guist	1932
12	Soakai Pulu	1931
13	Won Bun Chu	1927
14	Tomoko Morii	1926
15	Aleksei Medvedev	1920
16	Vepcho Bardanashvili	1917
17	In Seok Kim	1915
18	Mika Nagano	1910
19	Jason Peck	1905
20	Edson Carvalho	1901
21	Julia Berezikova	1900
22	Jacob Zobnin	1900
23	Ryan Sturdy	1899
24	Albert Basconcelles	1896
25	Riki Fukuda	1893

Frank Mir – Loss

The most interesting thing about this fight is that Brock lost. That put him at 1-1. However, he lost to an experienced fighter and a former champion. As a result the mma-elo.com system didn’t ding him too hard for the loss.

Despite not being dinged hard for the loss, Brock did suffer in the sense that he missed an opportunity. A win over a reasonable opponent at this point would have been worth 50+ points.

The other thing to realize is that this fight took place 2008-02-02, that’s a full 8 months after his debut on 2007-06-02. I’ll get into activity more later on, but in case you don’t make it through the rest of the rant I want to note that 8 months is a long time. On average fighters compete every 4 months, and early in a fighter’s career they tend to compete even more frequently than that.

Where fighters stood after 2 fights

Let’s again take a look at where other fighters stood two fights into their career.

Rank	Name	Rating
1	Joe Warren	1671
2	Crosley Gracie	1659
3	Matt Riddle	1656
4	Muhammed Lawal	1656
5	Aleksander Emelianenko	1655
6	Jamal Patterson	1648
7	Jonathan Wiezorek	1647
8	Marcio Cruz	1646
9	Demian Maia	1645
10	Andre Galvao	1644
11	Josh Curran	1641
12	Paulo Filho	1641
13	Chuck Liddell	1641
14	Shad Lierley	1640
15	Ansar Chalangov	1640
16	Roger Gracie	1639
17	Karl Schmidt	1639
18	B.J. Penn	1639
19	Vitor Ribeiro	1638
20	Ben Harrison	1636
21	Matt Hamill	1636
22	Billy Evangelista	1636
23	Zaza Tkeshelashvili	1635
24	Matt Pedro	1634
25	Un Sik Song	1634

Definitely more household names on the above list. Now let’s look at strength of schedule.

Rank	Name	SoS
1	Bu Kyung Jung	2006
2	Pawel Nastula	1977
3	Hong Man Choi	1922
4	Maynard Marcum	1865
5	Joe Warren	1860
6	Yoshihiro Takayama	1848
7	Alexandre Dantas	1845
8	Muhammed Lawal	1835
9	Yuji Nagata	1821
10	David Meyer	1810
11	Shawn Peters	1807
12	Valeri Ignatov	1805
13	Ole Laursen	1803
14	Darrel Gholar	1803
15	Crosley Gracie	1798
16	Dan Wheatley	1796
17	Robert Emerson	1793
18	Dusty Puckett	1789
19	Ricardas Rocevicius	1788
20	Steven Goss	1788
21	Wayne Porter	1783
22	Tariel Bitsadze	1781
23	Marcio Feitosa	1779
24	Justin Wilcox	1776
25	Kazuya Yasuhiro	1773

Heath Herring – Win

Heath Herring is a solid veteran fighter. At the time of the fight Heath had a rating of 1860 (would put him about 20th in the HW division). Heath is definitely a solid win on anyone’s resume and even more so for someone with only two previous fights.

The most controversial thing about the Heath fight is probably what followed. Before we get into that though, let’s take a look at…

Where fighters stood after 3 fights

When we look at overall rating after 3 fights we see a few interesting names. Aleks sits at #2, BJ is up to #4 Cain at #9, Lyoto at #10 and Frank Mir at #23 to name a few. The reason Brock isn’t on the list at this point is because of his loss to Mir. Again, if that fight had simply been a reasonable win he’d have cracked the top 25 and likely around top 10.

Rank	Name	Rating
1	Andre Galvao	1716
2	Aleksander Emelianenko	1715
3	Muhammed Lawal	1710
4	B.J. Penn	1708
5	Vitor Ribeiro	1706
6	Paulo Filho	1701
7	Demian Maia	1698
8	Matt Riddle	1692
9	Cain Velasquez	1691
10	Lyoto Machida	1690
11	Antonio Schembri	1689
12	Georges St. Pierre	1686
13	Shane Ott	1686
14	Hidehiko Yoshida	1685
15	Chael Sonnen	1683
16	Matt Hamill	1683
17	Josh Curran	1682
18	Anthony Johnson	1682
19	Ryan Stonitch	1680
20	Anthony Perosh	1680
21	Ramaz Ahadulaev	1680
22	Zaza Tkeshelashvili	1680
23	Frank Mir	1679
24	Ricardo Romero	1679
25	Samuel Gaskin	1678

Strength of Schedule at this point has a few interesting names. Including HMC (Fedor and Cro Cop within first 3 fights), and Zulu (Fedor and Nog within first 4 fights). Neither farred so well, but that’s still a pretty crazy schedule. 8)

Rank	Name	SoS
1	Hong Man Choi	1937
2	Pawel Nastula	1932
3	Bu Kyung Jung	1898
4	Yoshihiro Takayama	1859
5	Crosley Gracie	1806
6	Mark Hunt	1801
7	Bibiano Fernandes	1793
8	Muhammed Lawal	1784
9	Andre Pederneiras	1778
10	Edward O’Daniel	1777
11	Marcio Cruz	1776
12	Robert Emerson	1775
13	Tariel Bitsadze	1773
14	Bob Sapp	1769
15	Wagner da Conceicao Martins	1762
16	Shad Lierley	1758
17	Aleksander Emelianenko	1752
18	David Ferguson	1750
19	Seo Hee Ham	1746
20	Leopoldo Montenegro	1746
21	Masaya Kojima	1745
22	Scott Johnson	1743
23	Andre Galvao	1742
24	Marcio Barbosa	1739
25	Dan Wheatley	1735

Randy Couture – Win

This is probably the most controversial fight in Brock’s career thus far. Not because of the outcome, but because the match got made in the first place. Following a win over Heath Herring (top 20ish) and sporting a 2 win – 1 loss record, Brock was given a title shot in the UFC against Randy Couture.

I don’t think anyone believes Heath Herring (top 20ish at the time and 4-4 in his last 8) was going to get a title shot if he’d beaten Brock. Furthermore, Brock was coming off a loss and it’s possible a win by Heath would have resulted in Brock being cut. Certainly having one fight outcome be the difference between a 1-2 record and possibly out of the UFC versus a 2-1 record and a title shot is pretty crazy.

In the war between MMA and MME, this is definitely a battle that MME won. There’s no doubt Brock is marketable and some people wanted to see the fight. The fact that a 2-1 fighter would be given a title shot in the “best” organization in the world after beating a top 20(ish) HW and a “can” (with a loss thrown in) is just too much for some people to swallow.

What needs to be made clear though is that many of the people who object to the fight taking place don’t “hate” Brock. If it’d been a 2-1 Cain or a 2-1 Aleks or whomever many of these same people would have had the exact same problem. Seeing a 2-1 fighter get such an oppurtunity almost entirely because of outside the sport factors is insulting to the sport (and the other fighters).

I know some people will say, “But Brock won, so he deserved it”. That simply isn’t true. In many cases getting the title fight is the hard part. Some fighters win numerous fights against guys ranked well above 20th and still never get their opportunity. It needs to be understood that someone can give Brock credit for winning the fight, but still acknowledge it should have never happened in the first place. Much like if Lutter had beaten Anderson, or when Serra did beat GSP.

Where fighters stood after 4 fights

As we look at overall rating after 4 fights we now see Brock on the list (at number 12). Again, if he’d won his second fight he likely would be sitting at #1. Some other interesting names we see are: Filho(#1) I’ll never understand how this guy gets no credit from some people, King Mo (#2) the number of people taking notice seems destined to grow, Cain (#3) constantly overshadowed by Brock but off to a solid start, Hunt (#8), Mir (#10), GSP (#11), Hughes (#20).

Rank	Name	Rating
1	Paulo Filho	1759
2	Muhammed Lawal	1758
3	Cain Velasquez	1756
4	Vitor Ribeiro	1752
5	Anthony Johnson	1746
6	Demian Maia	1737
7	Gustavo Machado	1732
8	Mark Hunt	1730
9	Billy Evangelista	1729
10	Frank Mir	1728
11	Georges St. Pierre	1721
12	Brock Lesnar	1721
13	Kazuyuki Fujita	1719
14	Wilson Reis	1716
15	Lyoto Machida	1715
16	Jason Black	1715
17	Mark Bocek	1715
18	Tony DeSouza	1714
19	Dave Branch	1714
20	Matt Hughes	1714
21	Vitor Belfort	1714
22	Ricardo Morais	1713
23	Shane Nix	1713
24	Ronaldo Campos	1713
25	Tyson Griffin	1713

For Strength of Schedule I just have to mention Pawel. In his first 4 fights he fought: Big Nog, Josh Barnett, Aleks. I honestly have no idea who’s wife he slept with, but damn they better have had red hair!

Additionally, we also now see Brock Lesnar on the list as his overall schedule overcomes the very weak first opponent. He comes in at #9.

Rank	Name	SoS
1	Pawel Nastula	1960
2	Mark Hunt	1867
3	Bu Kyung Jung	1867
4	Wagner da Conceicao Martins	1847
5	Hong Man Choi	1828
6	Crosley Gracie	1821
7	Yoshihiro Takayama	1801
8	Marcio Cruz	1799
9	Brock Lesnar	1796
10	Shad Lierley	1789
11	Seo Hee Ham	1788
12	Aleksander Emelianenko	1784
13	Robert Emerson	1778
14	Tariel Bitsadze	1777
15	Hidehiko Yoshida	1764
16	Muhammed Lawal	1761
17	Andre Galvao	1755
18	Marcio Barbosa	1754
19	B.J. Penn	1752
20	Bibiano Fernandes	1747
21	Mike Whitehead	1745
22	Dong Sik Yoon	1741
23	Fabio Leopoldo	1730
24	Andre Pederneiras	1726
25	Mirko Filipovic	1721

Frank Mir – Win

Brock’s most recent fight was a rematch against Frank Mir. This time Brock was victorious. Avenging a loss is always a good thing, and doing it against a former champion (and current interim champion) only makes it better.

That puts Brock’s career record to 4-1. Let us take a look and see where other fighters stood five fights into their career.

Where fighters stood after 5 fights

With the win over Mir, Brock passed a lot of fighters and landed at #2 on the list. Barely ahead of Cain, but very close to #1. There’s no doubt that if he’d have won his second fight (making him 5-0) he’d have easily had the highest overall rating after five fights of any previous fighter in history.

Rank	Name	Rating
1	Vitor Ribeiro	1806
2	Brock Lesnar	1797
3	Cain Velasquez	1796
4	Paulo Filho	1786
5	Ricardo Morais	1779
6	Wilson Reis	1778
7	Gil Castillo	1775
8	Muhammed Lawal	1772
9	Patrick Cote	1770
10	Rodrigo Gracie	1770
11	Josh Barnett	1770
12	Demian Maia	1768
13	Thales Leites	1768
14	Antonio Silva	1763
15	Aleksander Emelianenko	1760
16	Todd Duffee	1760
17	Georges St. Pierre	1758
18	Gilbert Melendez	1756
19	Jake Rosholt	1756
20	Scott McAfee	1754
21	Andre Gusmao	1754
22	Johnny Hendricks	1753
23	Brandon Vera	1752
24	Mark Hunt	1751
25	Billy Evangelista	1751

Brock Lesnar also comes in second when we look at Strength of Schedule. The debut against a very weak fighter (sub 1500) was a bit too much for Brock to overcome. Still, #2 highest Strength of Schedule after 5 fights is pretty impressive.

Rank	Name	SoS
1	Pawel Nastula	1886
2	Brock Lesnar	1820
3	Wagner da Conceicao Martins	1818
4	Tariel Bitsadze	1805
5	Mark Hunt	1793
6	Marcio Cruz	1777
7	Aleksander Emelianenko	1776
8	Hidehiko Yoshida	1763
9	Dong Sik Yoon	1762
10	Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou	1753
11	Seo Hee Ham	1750
12	Mirko Filipovic	1744
13	Marcio Barbosa	1741
14	Yosuke Nishijima	1737
15	Matt Hamill	1726
16	Robert Emerson	1722
17	Nobuhiko Takada	1722
18	B.J. Penn	1722
19	Bibiano Fernandes	1720
20	Vitor Ribeiro	1714
21	Fabio Leopoldo	1712
22	Fabio Holanda	1711
23	Jorge Oliveira	1704
24	Dan Wheatley	1702
25	Alexander Otsuka	1699

Brock Lesnar Vs Shane Carwin

Brock’s next fight is scheduled to be against Shane Carwin. Obviously we don’t know who will win, but let’s see how things might look…Btw, isn’t it great have a reliable and predicitable system that allows something like this? lol I know some might hate it, but the fact that I can offer up information and analysis like this is pretty awesome imo. *shrugs*

Here is the table showing overall rating after six fights…

Rank	Name	Rating
1	Cain Velasquez	1864
2	Vitor Ribeiro	1847
3	Wilson Reis	1839
4	Josh Barnett	1839
5	Demian Maia	1824
6	Lyoto Machida	1822
7	Georges St. Pierre	1816
8	Paulo Filho	1814
9	Aleksander Emelianenko	1809
10	Antonio Silva	1809
11	Aaron Simpson	1809
12	Gilbert Melendez	1803
13	Cung Le	1803
14	Brian Stann	1802
15	Mark Hunt	1801
16	Mark Coleman	1800
17	Frank Edgar	1799
18	Thales Leites	1798
19	Ricardo Morais	1798
20	Brandon Vera	1797
21	Brock Lesnar	1797
22	Bryan Baker	1791
23	Gray Maynard	1791
24	Fabricio Werdum	1791
25	Mirko Filipovic	1789

With a win Brock will gain 66 points, putting him to 1863, that is exactly 1 point behind where Cain stood after 6 fights (and currently still stands). The interesting thing about that is again, *BROCK LOST*. Had Brock won his second fight he’d have easily been #1 after six fights. However, even with the loss the strength of Brock’s five wins in this case would be basically equal to Cain’s six, even with the loss factored in.

In terms of Strength of Schedule it’s not even close. Here’s the currently list for fighters after six fights…

Rank	Name	SoS
1	Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou	1791
2	Mark Hunt	1787
3	Matt Hamill	1779
4	Seo Hee Ham	1777
5	Aleksander Emelianenko	1772
6	Marcio Cruz	1771
7	Wagner da Conceicao Martins	1759
8	Mirko Filipovic	1749
9	Dong Sik Yoon	1748
10	Fabio Holanda	1739
11	Nobuhiko Takada	1734
12	Cain Velasquez	1731
13	Bibiano Fernandes	1727
14	Marcio Barbosa	1727
15	B.J. Penn	1724
16	Hidehiko Yoshida	1720
17	Vitor Ribeiro	1719
18	Jamal Patterson	1718
19	Alexander Otsuka	1716
20	Wojtek Kaszowski	1715
21	Fabio Leopoldo	1712
22	Kazuhiro Nakamura	1704
23	Daijiro Matsui	1694
24	Marcelo Aguiar	1692
25	Stephen Palling	1692

Brock’s Strength of Schedule will be over 1800 following the Carwin fight. As long as the fight happens Brock is guaranteed having the highest Strength of Schedule after six fights.

If he loses

If Brock loses he’ll still have the highest Strength of Schedule after six fights. However, his overall rating would drop to 1763. Still not too bad for six fights into a career.

Activity

I mentioned Brock’s fight activity above and now I’d like to explore it in deeper detail. Thus far for his career Brock has competed less than expected. How much less could be debated, but here’s some information.

On average an MMA fighter competes every 4 months (3 fights a year). Brock had his first fight on 2007-06-02 and his fifth fight on 2009-07-11. If Brock had fought once very 4 months he’d have had his fifth fight around 2009-02-02. Instead he didn’t have his fifth fight until over five months later.

The previously mentioned fight against Carwin is currently scheduled to happen 2009-11-21, which is about four months after his last fight. However, that still means Brock will be at least one fight behind for his young career.

I say at least because history shows fighters competing far more frequently early in their careers. Here are just a few random fighters I picked out from the assorted top 25 lists above that you might recognize:

King Mo – His second fight was barely a month after his first. His third was about two months after his second. With another fight about two months after that. In fact, King Mo now has five career fights as well and he did that in about 1 year (12 months). That’s about half as long as it’s taken Brock.

Cain – Things get a little interesting because Cain’s second fight was only about two months after his first. However, his third fight didn’t happen for over a year after that. Once he started fighting again Cain had breaks of about 3, 4 and 5 months between fights (not in that order).

BJ Penn – BJ Penn is interesting because overall for his career he has actually competed less than expected. When looking at the start of his career though we see that BJ Penn’s second fight was less than two months after his first. Following that he had breaks of about: 4 months, 2 months, 4 months, 4 months.

Obviously there are the people that go nuts like Jon Jones (8 fights in less than a year to start his career), but no one is talking about Brock competing nearly that much.

Why Activity matters

Some might be wondering why activity is so important. There are actually a few reasons for it. One is that MMA is an incredibly physical sport (obviously). It really is too common for a fighter to get injured during training. The training itself also takes a toll on fighters. The truth of the matter is that having more fights win or lose takes added toll on fighters.

From a ranking point of view we also have to realize how early in his career Brock still is. He’s at 5 fights now, should be at least six, and he lost one of those fights. A couple more wins would do wonders to boost his ratings. Not just in terms of this site, but also for fans still unsure of how he will continue to perform.

What If

All this talk about activity brings up an interesting What If situation. For the sake of discussion we will assume Brock already had that “missing” fight and that it was a win over Shane (sorry Shane). That would have put Brock’s rating to 1863 and I’ll assume in this case setup a match against Big Nog. A win against Big Nog (based upon Big Nog’s current rating) would put Brock up around 1950 rating. Obviously a lot can happen, but historically that high a rating would put him in the top 10.

As I’ve touched on a few times we also have the issue of that loss. Not for the small amounts of points it cost him, but for the missed opportunity to gain points. Had that fight been a win it is very possible that the hypothetical situation listed above would have put Brock over 2k rating. That is a *VERY* good rating and would have likely put Brock top 3.

What we know

We have looked at the opponents, at the fights, and at where other fighters stood early in their careers. With all of that information, what are some of the things we can conclude?

Tough Opponents

The first thing that jumps out is that Brock has had a very high strength of schedule thus far in his career. With the exception of his first fight all of his opponents have been solid veterans with decent ratings.

Brock lost and it cost him some

Looking at the numbers it’s clear that the loss cost Brock some. The system didn’t directly ding him too much for the loss, but it was a missed opportunity. It seems apparent that some completely ignore the loss, but that is silly. You are talking about someone who’s only fought for two years and only has five total fights. To ignore 20% of them and something that happened not that long ago is foolish.

Even if you don’t want to directly ding Brock because he was young or has a tattoo on his chest or whatever, you still should acknowledge the missed opportunity. A win in that fight would have given Brock 25% *MORE* Career wins. That is how small his fight history is, and that is why the fight needs to be acknowledged.

Frank Mir is 40% of Brock Lesnar’s Career to date

Frank is a solid fighter and a former champion, but he has had a spotty fight history. The fact that Frank Mir makes up such a large percentage of Brock Lesnar’s entire fight career is one reason some people remain skeptical.

Some people are living in the future

From the numbers above it seems as though some people are living in the future. In a time when Brock has already beaten Shane and possibly already beaten Big Nog. There is no doubt that those two wins would significantly increase his rating (and his ranking). For now though he is just 4-1 and that means beating Shane and Big Nog would be a 50% increase in his career win total.

Brock hasn’t fought nearly as much as he could have

The above point gets even more interesting when we consider it wouldn’t be that outlandish for Brock to have already beaten Shane and Big Nog (or at least fought them). His current fight pace is lower than expected and significantly below what we usually see for new fighters.

What we don’t know

Even though the above information sheds some light on a few parts of Brock Lesnar’s MMA career there are still some questions that remain.

Why hasn’t Brock competed more

He has been healthy, he is considered a major draw, there are plenty of opponents. Why is it that Brock has competed so infrequently to this point in his career?

To the haters

What is it going to take for Brock to be “legitimate” in your eyes? I’m not talking #1, I’m just talking acknowledgment that he is a professional fighter and no longer a WWE personality.

To the huggers

Is it really so hard to see that many who raise questions about Brock or have issues with certain parts of his career are not blind hatters? Brock *HAS* lost. I’m not saying crucify him for it for life, but understand that losing 1 out of 5 is quite a lot.

Also consider that Brock really hasn’t fought that much. If you hug him so hard, shouldn’t you want him to fight even more? If he had a couple more wins under his belt I think you’d see more people start to give him credit. MMA isn’t as fast as some like to think and some fans being hesitant about a 4-1 fighter isn’t uncalled for (think Sok).

Speaking of belt. Understand that there are many people who like Brock that still are able to acknowledge the title shot was a bit much.

Finally, for the people that put Brock top 3 or whatever, how can Brock be ranked so much higher than many of the people he’s beaten? Min wasn’t top anything, Heath was around top 20, Randy was 10(ish) and inactive for over a year and Mir was somewhere in the top 15-20 depending on who you ask (Brock is 1-1 against him).

What if a MW beats a 3-5 guy, loses to a top 20 guy, then beats another top 20 guy, top 10(ish) guy and then avenges his loss. Does that immediately make him a threat to Anderson? Does he leapfrog fighters like Okami, Henderson, and Nate?

Wouldn’t you want to see maybe one or two more fights before you put them into that upper echelon of fighters? Even if you don’t want to wait for a couple more fights, is it really so hard to understand that some might want to see a guy have just a couple more wins before declaring exactly where the sun rises and sets?

To all the others

If you made it this far and are still reading, please leave me a message and let me know why…

Tags: bj penn, brock lesnar, btn, king mo

This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 16th, 2009 at 4:50 pm and is filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. Both comments and pings are currently closed.