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	<title>Comments on: Strength of Schedule</title>
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		<title>By: Who has faced the hardest competition? - Page 12 - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-1468</link>
		<dc:creator>Who has faced the hardest competition? - Page 12 - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 09:31:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-1468</guid>
		<description>[...] someone has had through thier career.  A more in depth discussion about it can be found here Uncommon Sense Blog Archive Strength of Schedule    __________________ When you put money on the line - that&#039;s when dreams fade and reality sets in. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] someone has had through thier career.  A more in depth discussion about it can be found here Uncommon Sense Blog Archive Strength of Schedule    __________________ When you put money on the line &#8211; that&#8217;s when dreams fade and reality sets in. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: evil pooh</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>evil pooh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-38</guid>
		<description>Mariah -  Thanks, I&#039;ve got so much stuff in my head I&#039;m always afraid what I write will only make sense to me.  

Richard -  That&#039;s very true.  The reason I made the rant was because I see lots of people talk about &quot;strength of schedule&quot;, but lots of people have different ideas about what that means.  When using the term of strength of schedule it absolutely should include wins and losses.  However, some people don&#039;t want to talk about losses.  In those cases it&#039;s still possible to discuss a number, a stat, etc., but it becomes more of a &quot;big game hunter&quot; stat, or a &quot;high score&quot; stat or whatever.

Remember that what I&#039;m after here is for people to be discussing the same thing.  I&#039;m not going to walk into a discussion between one person using option 2 and one person using option 3 and tell them both to use option 1.  What I want to have happen is for those two people to realize they are discussing *DIFFERENT* things.  Then they will hopefully take some time to discuss option 2, and then some time on option 3.  They might even use others, but to watch people argue for 15 pages across a thread when neither is talking about the same thing is very frustrating for me.

As an example from above, someone talking about Fedor&#039;s strength of schedule should realize he has a fair amount of weaker fights and thusly his overall strength of schedule isn&#039;t as strong.  If they instead want to discuss hardest wins or another stat, then things can be very different.

An additional benefit of looking at the above is to realize how some systems become very flawed.  Most people talking about &quot;strength of schedule&quot; aren&#039;t looking for guys with 1 or 2 fights and they aren&#039;t looking for fighters that have never won a fight in their entire career.

Cases like that lead to sub-stats, increased parameters, etc.  Again, I won&#039;t say which is &quot;right&quot; because that depends on the situation.  However, it is very wrong to argue with someone when you aren&#039;t even discussing the same thing.  Someone can yell until they are blue in the face about how great Peterson is, but if I&#039;m talking about european football the discussing isn&#039;t going anywhere until we get on the same page.  We can ultimately still disagree, but we should at least be using the same criteria to reach those conclusions.  *shrugs*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mariah &#8211;  Thanks, I&#8217;ve got so much stuff in my head I&#8217;m always afraid what I write will only make sense to me.  </p>
<p>Richard &#8211;  That&#8217;s very true.  The reason I made the rant was because I see lots of people talk about &#8220;strength of schedule&#8221;, but lots of people have different ideas about what that means.  When using the term of strength of schedule it absolutely should include wins and losses.  However, some people don&#8217;t want to talk about losses.  In those cases it&#8217;s still possible to discuss a number, a stat, etc., but it becomes more of a &#8220;big game hunter&#8221; stat, or a &#8220;high score&#8221; stat or whatever.</p>
<p>Remember that what I&#8217;m after here is for people to be discussing the same thing.  I&#8217;m not going to walk into a discussion between one person using option 2 and one person using option 3 and tell them both to use option 1.  What I want to have happen is for those two people to realize they are discussing *DIFFERENT* things.  Then they will hopefully take some time to discuss option 2, and then some time on option 3.  They might even use others, but to watch people argue for 15 pages across a thread when neither is talking about the same thing is very frustrating for me.</p>
<p>As an example from above, someone talking about Fedor&#8217;s strength of schedule should realize he has a fair amount of weaker fights and thusly his overall strength of schedule isn&#8217;t as strong.  If they instead want to discuss hardest wins or another stat, then things can be very different.</p>
<p>An additional benefit of looking at the above is to realize how some systems become very flawed.  Most people talking about &#8220;strength of schedule&#8221; aren&#8217;t looking for guys with 1 or 2 fights and they aren&#8217;t looking for fighters that have never won a fight in their entire career.</p>
<p>Cases like that lead to sub-stats, increased parameters, etc.  Again, I won&#8217;t say which is &#8220;right&#8221; because that depends on the situation.  However, it is very wrong to argue with someone when you aren&#8217;t even discussing the same thing.  Someone can yell until they are blue in the face about how great Peterson is, but if I&#8217;m talking about european football the discussing isn&#8217;t going anywhere until we get on the same page.  We can ultimately still disagree, but we should at least be using the same criteria to reach those conclusions.  *shrugs*</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-37</guid>
		<description>The latter two methods aren&#039;t strength of schedule, but rather strength of victory or some variation thereof.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The latter two methods aren&#8217;t strength of schedule, but rather strength of victory or some variation thereof.</p>
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		<title>By: Mariah</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Mariah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 16:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-19</guid>
		<description>You write very well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You write very well.</p>
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		<title>By: conor</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-8</link>
		<dc:creator>conor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:59:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-8</guid>
		<description>I agree that stats are what you make them, but if the stat you are trying to define is Strength of Schedule there isn&#039;t really another way to define it other than &quot;who has fought the hardest schedule.&quot; You must, however, have some qualifiers for the strength of schedule to have any merit. Someone who only had one or two fights, and they happened to be against top fighters, I wouldn&#039;t even really consider a professional fighter in the &quot;career&quot; sense. So if you&#039;re trying to define the hardest schedule of a pro fighter(for arguemtns sake, 10 or more fights) there&#039;s only one way to do it. If you&#039;re trying to define &quot;which fighter has beaten most top competition&quot; then method 3 works best. My point is that method 3 is not defining strength of schedule, but &quot;most valuable victories&quot; or something like that. I&#039;m not arguing which stat is more impressive or important (I happen to think method 3 is the most valuable statistic we&#039;re discussing), but what is Strength of Schedule.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that stats are what you make them, but if the stat you are trying to define is Strength of Schedule there isn&#8217;t really another way to define it other than &#8220;who has fought the hardest schedule.&#8221; You must, however, have some qualifiers for the strength of schedule to have any merit. Someone who only had one or two fights, and they happened to be against top fighters, I wouldn&#8217;t even really consider a professional fighter in the &#8220;career&#8221; sense. So if you&#8217;re trying to define the hardest schedule of a pro fighter(for arguemtns sake, 10 or more fights) there&#8217;s only one way to do it. If you&#8217;re trying to define &#8220;which fighter has beaten most top competition&#8221; then method 3 works best. My point is that method 3 is not defining strength of schedule, but &#8220;most valuable victories&#8221; or something like that. I&#8217;m not arguing which stat is more impressive or important (I happen to think method 3 is the most valuable statistic we&#8217;re discussing), but what is Strength of Schedule.</p>
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		<title>By: evil pooh</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-7</link>
		<dc:creator>evil pooh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 13:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-7</guid>
		<description>As usual I&#039;m not trying to find a way to define the &quot;best&quot;, but rather trying to help others quantify what they are talking about.  For some people fighting hard competition win or lose is what they are after.  Others only care about who you beat since beating &quot;decent&quot; fighters and losing to &quot;great&quot; fighters can still yield a fairly high overall strength of schedule.

Much like with any sport I think different people will tend to favor different stats.  Some like total rushing yards, some like all-purpose yards, some like yards per carry, etc.

This can quickly remove any chance at reasonable debate/discussion when one person is talking about &quot;strength of schedule&quot; in the classic sense (method 1), but the other person is talking more about &quot;big game hunting&quot; as I called it or, &quot;most impressive victory tally&quot; as you put it.  My aim isn&#039;t to say &quot;this number is right&quot;, but rather an attempt at getting both sides to recognize the other person&#039;s method for arriving at that number.  It is very possible for both people to be correct, but simply to be talking about different things.  It&#039;s also possible someone is simply wrong, but it&#039;s easier to explain that if you understand exactly what they are talking about.

When talking specifically about method 1, a min number of fights is very useful as it prevents a fighter having only a few fights and achieving an incredibly high strength of schedule.  This is why the list builder on the main site allows setting a minimum number of fights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As usual I&#8217;m not trying to find a way to define the &#8220;best&#8221;, but rather trying to help others quantify what they are talking about.  For some people fighting hard competition win or lose is what they are after.  Others only care about who you beat since beating &#8220;decent&#8221; fighters and losing to &#8220;great&#8221; fighters can still yield a fairly high overall strength of schedule.</p>
<p>Much like with any sport I think different people will tend to favor different stats.  Some like total rushing yards, some like all-purpose yards, some like yards per carry, etc.</p>
<p>This can quickly remove any chance at reasonable debate/discussion when one person is talking about &#8220;strength of schedule&#8221; in the classic sense (method 1), but the other person is talking more about &#8220;big game hunting&#8221; as I called it or, &#8220;most impressive victory tally&#8221; as you put it.  My aim isn&#8217;t to say &#8220;this number is right&#8221;, but rather an attempt at getting both sides to recognize the other person&#8217;s method for arriving at that number.  It is very possible for both people to be correct, but simply to be talking about different things.  It&#8217;s also possible someone is simply wrong, but it&#8217;s easier to explain that if you understand exactly what they are talking about.</p>
<p>When talking specifically about method 1, a min number of fights is very useful as it prevents a fighter having only a few fights and achieving an incredibly high strength of schedule.  This is why the list builder on the main site allows setting a minimum number of fights.</p>
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		<title>By: conor</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>conor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-6</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think you can talk about strength of schedule and ignore losses. The second and third methods don&#039;t accurately reflect SOS, it&#039;s more of a &quot;most impressive victory&quot; tally. It seems like you&#039;re trying to figure out a way to define the best fighter, or which &quot;top&quot; fighter has consistently performed the best against top competition, and not looking for an honest SOS rating. I think the first method most accurately reflects SOS, but you need to amend it with a minimum number of fights. It&#039;s a simple adjustment that reflects the hardest SOS. Even if John &quot;I fight the best&quot; Doe loses every fight, he still has the toughest strength of schedule. SOS has nothing to do with wins and losses, it shouldn&#039;t even be brought up.

Method 1, with a minimum of 10 fights should paint a pretty accurate picture of a big name fighter who&#039;s stepped up the most.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think you can talk about strength of schedule and ignore losses. The second and third methods don&#8217;t accurately reflect SOS, it&#8217;s more of a &#8220;most impressive victory&#8221; tally. It seems like you&#8217;re trying to figure out a way to define the best fighter, or which &#8220;top&#8221; fighter has consistently performed the best against top competition, and not looking for an honest SOS rating. I think the first method most accurately reflects SOS, but you need to amend it with a minimum number of fights. It&#8217;s a simple adjustment that reflects the hardest SOS. Even if John &#8220;I fight the best&#8221; Doe loses every fight, he still has the toughest strength of schedule. SOS has nothing to do with wins and losses, it shouldn&#8217;t even be brought up.</p>
<p>Method 1, with a minimum of 10 fights should paint a pretty accurate picture of a big name fighter who&#8217;s stepped up the most.</p>
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		<title>By: GSP vs Penn (Merged) Talk about it here! - Page 152 - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums</title>
		<link>http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/strength-of-schedule/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>GSP vs Penn (Merged) Talk about it here! - Page 152 - Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 23:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=9#comment-5</guid>
		<description>[...] he fights offset them. The guy who run&#039;s MMA-elo wrote a good articel on strength of Schedule here: mma-elo Blog Archive Strength of Schedule    __________________ WE 59K champ!!!!  &quot;&#039;Mens Rea: Living Legend and a Friend&#039; - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] he fights offset them. The guy who run&#8217;s MMA-elo wrote a good articel on strength of Schedule here: mma-elo Blog Archive Strength of Schedule    __________________ WE 59K champ!!!!  &quot;&#8217;Mens Rea: Living Legend and a Friend&#8217; &#8211; [...]</p>
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