Comments on: Never the right time http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/never-the-right-time/ Hide your redheads!!! Fri, 21 Jan 2011 18:35:26 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.5 By: evil pooh http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/never-the-right-time/comment-page-1/#comment-10 evil pooh Fri, 03 Oct 2008 10:58:44 +0000 http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=10#comment-10 For the tap rule I think a basic replay should suffice. If a ref misses a tap, then the fight should be stopped and the proper fighter awarded the win. If a ref calls a tap that didn't really happen, then the fight should be restarted (in the same position of the stoppage though). One potential issue might be if the ref stopped the fight intentionally, even though the fighter hadn't tapped. A fight like tim sylvia versus frank mir for instance. The fight wasn't stopped because sylvia tapped, it was stopped because sylvia's arm went "pop". Even in this case some pretty clear rules could be put in place. The issue with "injuries" I think carries over to other factors too. If a fighter was injured and their cardio looks like poo (not the evil kind, the smelly kind). Obviously a fighter doesn't want their opponent to know which leg to kick. However, for the people discussing the fight in the time leading up to it many comments are frowned upon. Often times people see them as excuses before the fact. A couple examples I can remember are: - Hughes having a horrible game plan for GSP in the second fight. In a couple different interviews hughes had alluded to and carried himself in a way that lead me (and I'm sure others) to believe he was about to make a huge tactical mistake in his fight. Shockingly enough, he came out in the second fight and got ran over. - Cro cop in the UFC. After watching sanchez do the water sprinkler and circle away for most of the fight I made several comments about cro cop's performance. Lots dismissed it as "he won, don't worry about it", and others fell into the category of "you're just making excuses and he hasn't even lost yet". /boggle In terms of injuries/status I think talking about frank mir returning after the accident falls into a similar category. Obviously some people will "make excuses" for their favorite fighters, but I think in general a bit more honest discussion prior to fights could be useful. If after every loss there is an excuse then I think it gets excessive. However, talking about a fighter's status, game plan, previous fights, etc. leading up to another fight doesn't seem unreasonable to me. To some though the practice is seen as making excuses before the fight even happens. For the tap rule I think a basic replay should suffice. If a ref misses a tap, then the fight should be stopped and the proper fighter awarded the win. If a ref calls a tap that didn’t really happen, then the fight should be restarted (in the same position of the stoppage though).

One potential issue might be if the ref stopped the fight intentionally, even though the fighter hadn’t tapped. A fight like tim sylvia versus frank mir for instance. The fight wasn’t stopped because sylvia tapped, it was stopped because sylvia’s arm went “pop”. Even in this case some pretty clear rules could be put in place.

The issue with “injuries” I think carries over to other factors too. If a fighter was injured and their cardio looks like poo (not the evil kind, the smelly kind). Obviously a fighter doesn’t want their opponent to know which leg to kick. However, for the people discussing the fight in the time leading up to it many comments are frowned upon. Often times people see them as excuses before the fact. A couple examples I can remember are:

- Hughes having a horrible game plan for GSP in the second fight. In a couple different interviews hughes had alluded to and carried himself in a way that lead me (and I’m sure others) to believe he was about to make a huge tactical mistake in his fight. Shockingly enough, he came out in the second fight and got ran over.

- Cro cop in the UFC. After watching sanchez do the water sprinkler and circle away for most of the fight I made several comments about cro cop’s performance. Lots dismissed it as “he won, don’t worry about it”, and others fell into the category of “you’re just making excuses and he hasn’t even lost yet”. /boggle

In terms of injuries/status I think talking about frank mir returning after the accident falls into a similar category. Obviously some people will “make excuses” for their favorite fighters, but I think in general a bit more honest discussion prior to fights could be useful. If after every loss there is an excuse then I think it gets excessive. However, talking about a fighter’s status, game plan, previous fights, etc. leading up to another fight doesn’t seem unreasonable to me. To some though the practice is seen as making excuses before the fight even happens.

]]> By: conor http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/2008/never-the-right-time/comment-page-1/#comment-9 conor Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:38:43 +0000 http://www.mma-elo.com/rants/?p=10#comment-9 I don't many ways to adjust the tap rule. It's a fight, emotions are running high and things happen. Maybe some sort of three tap rule? You have to tap three times? There are many flaws and dangers involved here. Another possibility is the verbal tap, the fighter has to actually say "tap." Again, it's hard to talk when you're being choked. Although a combination may work, a situation where both options are available. There is always going to be controversial stoppages, and submission verification is a slippery slope that could lead to serious injuries. I think it's in all of the fighter's best interests to err on the side of caution here: it's better to lose the fight controversially than suffer ligament/cartilage damage. Another option may be some sort of challenge, where the ref and judges watch the replay and decide whether the fighter tapped or not? Although, this could easily get out of hand with fighters offering an ambiguous tap to get out of a solid submission for the opportunity to challenge on replay. I just don't see any realistic adjustments to clean up these "mistakes." Do you have any ideas? Mentioning injuries is another very slippery slope. Mentioning an injury before a fight may give your opponent an advantage in terms of a game plan. This is another query I just don't see a resolution to. I think fighters should just keep injuries to themselves. If it's going to affect you during the fight and you're aware of it, then bring it up in pre-fight interviews or cancel your fight. Otherwise, don't mention it. If you really need the money that bad, then you're doing what you have to do to survive and you don't need to explain to anybody why you lost. If you think you can win with the injury and dont, then you overestimated yourself and should keep it to yourself because that's how people with interpret it. Mentioning an injury after a fight is not disrespectful if someone asks you about it: "how was your camp coming in to this fight" "well, I got hurt." I don't see that as disrespectful at all. I think the problem with this injury crap is the fans. The WWE(no offense to people who enjoy it) fans like the drama and live for certain fighters: they'll bash people they don't like for anything, regardless of whether it's warranted or not. Now if I guy says "yea, I was hurt coming in but I knew I could beat him anyway" that I would consider disrespectful, but I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone say that. You know, that's actually what fighters who lose and bring up and injury actually sound like. Solutions: -bring it up before a fight, roll the dice and hope your opponent can't exploit it.(worst possible idea in my eyes) -don't bring it up, after a loss, and deal with people harassing you. -bring it, up after a win, if asked about it and deal with people harassing you. -Don't bring it up after a win and it's like it never happened.(best possible scenario) There's really no way to talk about an injury in MMA. It all comes down to fan reaction, something no fighter can control. I don’t many ways to adjust the tap rule. It’s a fight, emotions are running high and things happen. Maybe some sort of three tap rule? You have to tap three times? There are many flaws and dangers involved here. Another possibility is the verbal tap, the fighter has to actually say “tap.” Again, it’s hard to talk when you’re being choked. Although a combination may work, a situation where both options are available. There is always going to be controversial stoppages, and submission verification is a slippery slope that could lead to serious injuries. I think it’s in all of the fighter’s best interests to err on the side of caution here: it’s better to lose the fight controversially than suffer ligament/cartilage damage. Another option may be some sort of challenge, where the ref and judges watch the replay and decide whether the fighter tapped or not? Although, this could easily get out of hand with fighters offering an ambiguous tap to get out of a solid submission for the opportunity to challenge on replay. I just don’t see any realistic adjustments to clean up these “mistakes.” Do you have any ideas?

Mentioning injuries is another very slippery slope. Mentioning an injury before a fight may give your opponent an advantage in terms of a game plan. This is another query I just don’t see a resolution to. I think fighters should just keep injuries to themselves. If it’s going to affect you during the fight and you’re aware of it, then bring it up in pre-fight interviews or cancel your fight. Otherwise, don’t mention it. If you really need the money that bad, then you’re doing what you have to do to survive and you don’t need to explain to anybody why you lost. If you think you can win with the injury and dont, then you overestimated yourself and should keep it to yourself because that’s how people with interpret it. Mentioning an injury after a fight is not disrespectful if someone asks you about it: “how was your camp coming in to this fight” “well, I got hurt.” I don’t see that as disrespectful at all. I think the problem with this injury crap is the fans. The WWE(no offense to people who enjoy it) fans like the drama and live for certain fighters: they’ll bash people they don’t like for anything, regardless of whether it’s warranted or not. Now if I guy says “yea, I was hurt coming in but I knew I could beat him anyway” that I would consider disrespectful, but I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anyone say that. You know, that’s actually what fighters who lose and bring up and injury actually sound like.

Solutions:
-bring it up before a fight, roll the dice and hope your opponent can’t exploit it.(worst possible idea in my eyes)
-don’t bring it up, after a loss, and deal with people harassing you.
-bring it, up after a win, if asked about it and deal with people harassing you.
-Don’t bring it up after a win and it’s like it never happened.(best possible scenario)

There’s really no way to talk about an injury in MMA. It all comes down to fan reaction, something no fighter can control.

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